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 Cerambycidae Lamiinae
 Dorcaschematini
 China, Olenecamptus: subobliteratus
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znort
Member Purpuricenus

China
128 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2013 :  15:58:10  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote

214.55 KB

06/2012
I find this species last summer in Yunnan: "Gorges du saut du tigre" by swamping.
When this insect was fresh he was yellow.

Located in Jiangsu now!!!

Edited by - znort on 01/01/2013 16:36:30

Gerard
Scientific Collaborator

France
3708 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2013 :  16:42:12  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Je pense fortement a Olenecamptus subobliteratus Pic, 1923
Qui est donné de Corée, Chine, Japon, Taïwan
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7800 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2013 :  08:55:03  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gerard

Je pense fortement a Olenecamptus subobliteratus Pic, 1923
Qui est donné de Corée, Chine, Japon, Taiwan

Je suis d'accord avec toi, Gérard.

Selon son auteur et Breuning ce taxon ne serait qu'une semple variété de O. clarus Pascoe, 1859; selon Savio (1929) serait au contraire une bonne espèce.
Le livre de China de Lingafelter & Co. suive Gressitt (1951) et opte pour une sous-espèce... la seule choix qui n'est pas acceptable, du moment que les deux taxons sont présents à la fois en Chine, Taïwan et Japon.

quote:
Originally posted by znort

When this insect was fresh he was yellow.

Observation très intéressant, znort!
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Max
Member Purpuricenus

Russia
487 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2013 :  17:50:01  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Good evening, friends!
If it is O. subobliteratus that this strange O. subobliteratus in my view...
O. subobliteratus is described from near Shanghai, and the known from Yunnan too. Pic's Type of O. subobliteratus has reddish-brown legs and antenna. Much possible that exists quite a few white Olenecamptus like look.

In 2001 from Maritime Prov. (Russia) was described Olenecamptus riparius Danilevsky, easy distinguished from O. subobliteratus.
O. subobliteratus has white episterna of metathorax because of dense white pubescence, while in O. riparius metathoracic episterna are dark brown because of sparse pale pubescence.
Earlier all white Russian Olenecamptus were automatically defined as "clarus".

O. clarus has no relations with this beetle, this small brightly-white bug with 6 points on elytra (not 4 like subobliteratus and riparius)
If quote M. Danilevsky : "Most probably there are several species in Japan with the name «O. clarus»."
But this is other story...
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7800 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2013 :  18:12:15  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can not judge this topic; nonetheless, I notice that Savio distinguished these forms in this way:
  • limbs red, 6 elytral points: clarus
  • limbs dark, 4 elytral points: subobliteratus.

Now, this Japanese Website shows
  • a beetle with 4 elytral points and red limbs... identified as subobliteratus (why not clarus? ),
  • a beetle with 8 spots and bicolor legs (identified as clarus).

Finally, this is the type of O. clarus.

Honestly, I do not observe that sharp differences in Japanese specimens that can sustain Danilevsky's opinion....
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Max
Member Purpuricenus

Russia
487 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2013 :  19:10:38  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
This beetle is very similar to O. subobliteratus with dark legs, really.
I'm but to tell as subobliteratus-like similar species can inhabit not only Russia (as riparius). Chiefly in South China

In Japanese Website all right.
Moderately small O. clarus with 6 discal spots and big O. subobliteratus with 4 discal spots.

quote:
Honestly, I do not observe that sharp differences in Japanese specimens that can sustain Danilevsky's opinion....
I agree, it is prematurely. But not impossible.

Beetle from Lazo (Maritime prov. of Russia, Lazovsky district)

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Max
Member Purpuricenus

Russia
487 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2013 :  19:12:49  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
it worked like a dream!!!
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Bi
Member Demonax

China
58 Posts

Posted - 13/01/2013 :  21:55:53  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
The new species is rather suspicious to me!
Without comparing the endophallus even if tegmens....
The colour of pubescence is unstable by different collection and preservation methods,
It's very easy to become dark, when the alive one confronted a wet environment and difficult to recover (killed by ethyl acetate)
This case is different from some other white pubescent species.

This why, only a few specimens show perfect white in both ventral and dorsal views, like the type.
Maybe killed by cyanide.

And some other diagnostic features almost be individual differences....

Edited by - Bi on 13/01/2013 21:56:48
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Max
Member Purpuricenus

Russia
487 Posts

Posted - 14/01/2013 :  15:42:23  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Dear Bi, all of Russian Olenecamptus riparius has metathoracic episterna dark brown, unicolored with underside of beetle. Always. This exists beside alive beetles and beside exemplars in collection too. This does not depend on way preparation and/or mortification. This very usual and the well-known beetle, which in the whole soviet literature appeared anytime, as "clarus". Indeed, it close to O. subobliteratus. This fact was all is ignored.
Have you got any fresh O. subobliteratus with dark metathoracic episterna? This was much interesting.
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Bi
Member Demonax

China
58 Posts

Posted - 14/01/2013 :  20:24:58  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Dear Max,
I will try to find and photograph some. Please wait a while, The camera is not available to me now.
By the way, can you show your specimen in ventral-lateral view ?
Thank you.

Edited by - Bi on 14/01/2013 20:25:33
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Sergey
Member Nathrius

Russia
5 Posts

Posted - 18/01/2013 :  06:24:15  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Olenecamptus riparius has metathoracic episterna dark brown -look at a photo and this topic


123.46 KB

Edited by - Sergey on 18/01/2013 06:29:09
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8220 Posts

Posted - 16/05/2015 :  15:35:37  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
In the same group species, see also holotype specimens of Olenecamptus nigromaculatus Pic, 1915 here
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MONO
Member Purpuricenus

China
148 Posts

Posted - 20/02/2017 :  15:12:10  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Xavier, can you post the holotype of Olenecamptus nigromaculatus to me? Thanks!
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8220 Posts

Posted - 20/02/2017 :  15:35:57  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Mono, when you reply to a message, just choose " reply", and no "reply with quote ".

This picture is available in "types section " of the forum.
You need to reach 50 post to see thoses pictures ...no so far

Edited by - Xavier on 20/02/2017 15:37:50
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8220 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2017 :  07:02:48  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Francesco

I can not judge this topic; nonetheless, I notice that Savio distinguished these forms in this way:
  • limbs red, 6 elytral points: clarus
  • limbs dark, 4 elytral points: subobliteratus.


Holotype pictures of Olenecamptus nigromaculatus Pic, 1915, a species from Tibet, show specimens with limbs reddish, 4 elytral points !...

I do not see any other difference with Znort's specimen.
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MONO
Member Purpuricenus

China
148 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2017 :  15:59:14  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Xavier. I got it
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