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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
8069 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2017 :  19:26:31  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Writing a scientific description, we had a doubt on how to measure the different parts of body.
Concerning the pronotum, do you consider lateral spines or not?
Considering elytra, do you consider apical or humeral spines?
This is important to defining proportions.


Case 1 or 2?

I never taken into considerations these appendages, but different authors could have different opinion and take different measures.
Lameere, for example, declared to not have taken into consideration the head in his measures of Prioninae, but he said nothing about spines.

Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8808 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2017 :  20:00:22  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
For Breuning, the width of the pronotum is in its widest width, it means that lateral spines are include into the mesurement.

It also seems logical to me that the length of the body should be measured down to the apical teeth...At least, the merchants who sell the animals according to their length should do so.
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8808 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2017 :  20:25:40  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I'm looking for a description of a spiny pronotum species, where the author says it's "as long as wide"... I've read a lot of them, but at least we have to find one !

Edited by - Xavier on 16/11/2017 20:26:06
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Francesco
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Luxembourg
8069 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2017 :  21:00:38  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote

137.51KB

Another problem is the "Body size".

I use the n2, but sometimes, I receive measures using the n3.
Possibly right is the n1 (used for Carabidae).
Lameere used the n4 (for Prioninae)
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8808 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2017 :  21:11:13  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
About the "body size", this is more complicated because if the head is not in the horizontal position, the measurement is completely different !
Measure 3 seems absurd to me.

Edited by - Xavier on 16/11/2017 21:20:03
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africaone
Member Purpuricenus

Belgium
393 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2017 :  22:20:38  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
the most important is to precise it in the paper. I think the most used is 2. anyway the length is so variable that is muts be indicactive

s'il n'y pas de solution c'est qu'il n'y a pas de problme ! akuna matata ....
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Pierre-Olivier Maquart
Member Rosalia

United Kingdom
720 Posts

Posted - 17/11/2017 :  11:07:23  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I agree with Thierry for this.
Personnaly I would use N2, but the most important is to specify it in the Material and Methods
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Capitaine
Scientific Collaborator

France
1292 Posts

Posted - 17/11/2017 :  11:51:40  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
In my opinion for the body length the most used is N2 but I usually take this measure after beetle preparation (for a correct head position).
Concerning pronotum global shaping I don't take spines into account because they are too variable in size.

Claude
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8808 Posts

Posted - 18/11/2017 :  08:52:05  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote

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Here a part of the description of Cristeryssamena cristipennis (Breuning, 1963) and a picture of the holotype.

Pronotum is as long as wide, ...with lateral spines.

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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8808 Posts

Posted - 18/11/2017 :  09:06:07  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote

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Here the original description of Exocentrus (Camptomyme) rufolateralis Breuning, 1963 = Exocentrus subglaber Fisher, 1925 and his holotype picture.

" Pronotum more than twice as wide as long ". I don't know how to measure the width of the pronotum by removing the lateral teeth.


Edited by - Xavier on 18/11/2017 09:17:59
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8808 Posts

Posted - 18/11/2017 :  09:36:15  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Another shape of pronotum here, with Euryxaenapta rondoni Breuning, 1963 :

86.64KB

Original description & holotype of course.
"pronotum more than twice as wide as long"
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8808 Posts

Posted - 18/11/2017 :  11:02:10  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
To complete: About Sarmydus dulongensis Bi & Drumont, 2017, wrote: " pronotum about 0,5 times as long as wide (the width measured just before the lateral teeth)."

So, there is no rule.

But without precision of the author, it is implicit that the larger widths must be checked (at least with Breuning).
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