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 Cerambycidae Lamiinae
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 Tanzania, Cochliopalpus: suturalis
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Vitali
Member Rosalia

Estonia
914 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2014 :  22:02:55  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote

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Cochliopalpus catherina (White, 1858)?

Jérôme Sudre
Member Rosenbergia

France
1599 Posts

Posted - 14/04/2014 :  21:41:39  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Oui c'est correct quoique les deux espèces sont très proches catherina est parfois plus gris....
fimbriatus est la forme grise, catherina avec des lignes transversales voire légèrement quadrillé et suturalis fortement quadrillé . c'est à se demander parfois si les 3 espèces ne sont pas des formes géographiques et donc des écotypes ?
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Vitali
Member Rosalia

Estonia
914 Posts

Posted - 15/04/2014 :  23:35:36  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Both specimens Cochliopalpus catherina and C. suturalis in my collection are claimed to be collected in the same region (Mbinga district, Ruvuma region) with interval in 5 years. If one could trust a local collector 100%, this circumstance would speak against the suggestion that these two could be geographical forms of the same species.
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
8991 Posts

Posted - 16/04/2020 :  16:43:01  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
In my opinion, this specimen is Cochliopalpus suturalis.
C. catherina is more grayish and without bands on the head.

Possibly, these three taxa form only one species; the fact that they are present in the same region might simply indicate the contact zone of two subspecies.
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Capitaine
Scientific Collaborator

France
1702 Posts

Posted - 16/04/2020 :  18:38:39  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
bonjour à tous, je profite de ce post pour demander une confirmation sur ces bêtes (de Zambie) qui m'ont été vendues sous l'appellation "C. suturalis" .. je pense qu'il doit y avoir un problème ?


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Claude
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Jérôme Sudre
Member Rosenbergia

France
1599 Posts

Posted - 16/04/2020 :  19:29:01  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Désolé me suis planté ! Justement avec Francesco nous regardons les Cochliopalpus et en fait ici il s'agit bien de suturalis et non catherina ! Par contre il y a une variété de catherina décrite par Distant sur des ex récolté par Peringuey qui se nomme maricovensis ! Qui ressemble à s'y méprendre à suturalis, et d'ailleurs qui par la suite a été mise en synonymie de suturalis alors qu'il s'agit bien d'un catherina.
Mais si vous avez des ex en séries ou de plusieurs espèces vous constaterez que les C catherina on les tibias médians et postérieurs nettement plus aplaties (plus larges) comme fimbriatus d'ailleurs, que C suturalis qui les a linéaires et nettement moins élargies dans leur partie medio postérieure (Ce caractère est très net et a priori pas stipulé dans les articles ? A moins que quelqu'un en trouve un ).
Par ailleurs , chez suturalis (comme les photos ici) présente dans la région du vertex une tache rouge qui suis la coube du lobe oculaire supérieur et qui diverge en suivant la suture épicraniale alors que chez catherina cette couleur rouge ne suit que la courbe du lobe oculaire supérieur . Maintenant il peut y avoir des exceptions ...
Espérant avoir été clair ? C'est pas toujours le cas.....
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Vitali
Member Rosalia

Estonia
914 Posts

Posted - 16/04/2020 :  20:51:05  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote

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Well, this is obviously my mistake that created a mess here. You can see my other specimen below , which I surely regarded to be C. suturalis. It is practically identical to the specimens shown by Claude. Please, pay attention to a very characteristic net like colour pattern. The pattern in my first beetle does not show vertical lines and has only transverse bands, like in C. catherina shown by Francesco. I probably overestimated the importance this character.

Edited by - Vitali on 16/04/2020 20:59:01
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Jérôme Sudre
Member Rosenbergia

France
1599 Posts

Posted - 17/04/2020 :  15:10:49  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Hello Vitali

Yes but the variety named by Distant C Catherina var maricovensis looks like suturalis! So that once again misleads ! This is also the reason why this variety (which is maybe a good ssp or sp ?) has been put in synonymy with suturalis ! The resemblance with suturalis is indeed striking and if we don't have a series allowing to differentiate them, we are quickly trapped!
Attention also I give an opinion on the variety maricovensis by basing myself on only 2 lines written by Distant I saw only one figure and thus I can still be mistaken if I see passing C catherina var maricovensis...But I asked the to Max Barclay to be sure of what I advance.
What is demoralizing is that even in groups where there are only 4 species it is difficult to be firm on the determinations so much that there were errors and confusions... You see, it's not only the Sophronica.....Eunidia etc...that are causing problems

What intrigues me the most is that C catherina until 2001 (Adlbauer) was only known in R.S.A. Namibia, and Zimbabwe!
Except in 1980, when Duffy reported it in Uganda on Acacia drepanolobium, and in Kenya ? In 1997, Teocchi described ssp naivashae from Kenya, and I will be very curious to see this ssp?

So in my opinion it would be good to see the type of ssp naivashae and localities in Kenya and even more in Uganda.
I have an ex from Kenya that I liken to maricovensis described from South Africa ... but nothing is certain given the very short description.
I have the vague impression that there is something else within Cochliopalpus? To be continued...


Edited by - Jérôme Sudre on 17/04/2020 16:15:19
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Jérôme Sudre
Member Rosenbergia

France
1599 Posts

Posted - 13/09/2020 :  11:08:07  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Hello
Well I'm in a bit of trouble because the type of the variety maricovensis after my requests is neither at the BMNH nor at the Ditsong museum in Pretoria nor at the South African Museum (Barclay and Riana), so maybe the alternative of the Durban museum remains for me?
If some people have ideas where this type can be found, then they will be welcome.
Thank you in advance
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