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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  12:05:52  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I edit this topic every time I find new informations about this really big mess.

and I write new annotations about Thai species.


I received today several specimens with this label: Saraburi, XI. 1988, Thailand.

All species of my parcel are only known from...Borneo.
So, if you have specimen(s) with those data, they are wrong.

2 examples here and here

Edited by - Xavier on 05/02/2017 15:56:48

Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7762 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  13:38:22  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have six specimens (unidentified Clytini) with labels II.1988, IV.1988, IV.1989, X.1989
They were bought from C. C. Chua, a Malayan seller passed away many years ago, before 1992.
Do you think they are false or there is another locality with a similar name?
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Francesco
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Luxembourg
7762 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  13:49:12  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Most interesting is this specimen... a type.
And it is not the only one. See here.

Dauber (2004) published also new species having distribution Borneo, Cameron Highlands... and Saraburi (XI.1988).
The same seller?
I can recognise data of my labels: Cameron Hgh, Fraser Hills, Saraburi... well!
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  14:47:24  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
All my blisters have exactly the same shape and same ink pad; and because I know most of the species, I can be sure that they all come from Borneo.
Yes, it is really catastrophic .

First, Saraburi, XI.1988, Thailande is a quite impossible data!
In Thailand, November is beginning of winter (end of rainy season) and starting dry season, and there are no species on tree flowers... Many trees lost their leaves as in Europe !!!

In the other hand, we just can suspect that specimens with same data have also wrong locality...

But :
-Serratobicon scutatus sabahensis Holzschuh, 2009 is from Borneo, and Serratobicon scutatus (Holzschuh, 1992) from Saraburi, XI.1988, Thailande

- Serratobicon spinicornis (Holzschuh, 1992) Saraburi, XI.1988, Thailande

- Merionoeda anulus atra Yokoi & Niisato, 2012 is from Borneo, but Merionoeda anulus Holzschuh, 1991 is from Saraburi, XI.1988, Thailande

- Merionoeda hasta Holzschuh, 1991: all data between January-March-June from south Thailand and Malaysia, and a strange data from... Saraburi, XI.1988, Thailande

- Rhaphuma retrofasciata Dauber, 2004: all data from Malacca was from June and a "series" from Saraburi, XI.1988, Thailande (ahaha)

- etc

In fact, the game is very simple: find all species from... Saraburi, XI.1988, Thailande

Je trouve étonnant qu'aucun des "auteurs" n'aient trouvé bizarres ces données.
Amazing that none of the "authors" found it strange.

Edited by - Xavier on 01/02/2017 14:50:09
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  14:52:11  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
The second part of the game is to find all synonyms species between Saraburi, XI. 1988, Thailande and Borneo

Edited by - Xavier on 02/02/2017 08:25:23
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  15:41:36  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Wouah! List from Saraburi, XI.1988, Thailande is ...quite long!
Questions are: Are they all from Borneo? Have they been already described?

Serratobicon scutatus (Holzschuh, 1992) probably synonym of Serratobicon scutatus sabahensis Holzschuh, 2009. Incredible this "subspecies" when you think about it more than 2 seconds

Serratobicon spinicornis (Holzschuh, 1992)

Merionoeda anulus Holzschuh, 1991

Merionoeda hasta Holzschuh, 1991

Merionoeda marginalis Holzschuh, 1991

Rhaphuma retrofasciata Dauber, 2004: all data of this species in north of Bangkok are evidently fake

Merionoeda (Macromolorchus) longicollis Holzschuh, 1989

Metalloleptura curticornis Holzschuh, 1991 probably a synonym of Metalloleptura virescens (Aurivillius, 1911). I wonder what differences found the author

Cleomenes rufobasalis Holzschuh, 1991: just a simple synonym of Cleomenes vittatus Pascoe, 1869??

Pachydissus patricius Holzschuh, 1991

Ceresium cribrum Holzschuh, 1991

Psilomerus procerus Holzschuh, 1992: Here a specimen from... West Java ! Make your choice to find the good synonym P. gracilis or P. simplex?? I dream to collect Psilomerus species in Thailand in November...

Zatrephus crassinus Holzschuh, 1992: a true species, or one of Bornean's one ?; may be the beginning of an answer here ?

Stenhomalus ornatrix Holzschuh, 1995 is from September, 28th, 1988... but it is an error in Titan database! "True" data is XI.1988 in publication ..(ahaha)

Demonax holzschuhi Viktora, 2015 oops, oops, is probably the same as Demonax inscriptus Gressitt, 1951 from Borneo, or Demonax pardus Viktora, 2015 from Perak!!

Rhaphuma superba Dauber, 2002 mentioned from Thailand by WOESTYN G. & DAUBER D., 2004. Note sur un specimen tératologique de Raphuma superba, Dauber 2003 (Coleoptera Cerambycidae). Lambillionea 104 (2); should be checked, no ?

to complete...

Edited by - Xavier on 02/02/2017 19:41:43
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  18:09:43  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
To close this stupid topic, I show you a typical blister from Saraburi :


31.13 KB

with inside a small plastic bag ...Rhaphuma brevivittata (Aurivillius, 1922) (Bornean species !)

31.2 KB

Edited by - Xavier on 02/02/2017 08:45:35
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7762 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  19:02:50  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Moreover... if you search for Saraburi, you find two articles published by the Bishop Museum concerning Indo-Chinese Chrysomelidae.

Saraburi is mentioned several times (collection date 1956) together with species widespread in Laos and Vietnam... never with Bornean species.
That is because Saraburi is a woody hill, while Borneo is especially mountain. Thus, connections between such localities are very improbable.
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2017 :  20:27:20  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Je pense que c'est cette donnée exacte qui est une erreur, tout simplement parce quelqu'un (un employé du vendeur) s'est trompé de tampon encreur !
J'ai trouvé d'autres coléoptères (Cicindèles, Tenebrion) avec exactement la même donnée de date et localité.
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  06:37:28  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Francesco

I have six specimens (unidentified Clytini) with labels II.1988, IV.1988, IV.1989, X.1989
They were bought from C. C. Chua, a Malayan seller passed away many years ago, before 1992.
Do you think they are false or there is another locality with a similar name?
Could you make photos of your clytini species?
I think I can tell you if they comes from Thailand or Borneo. I wonder how many wrong labels come from this seller...

Edited by - Xavier on 02/02/2017 06:37:56
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7762 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  08:58:46  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
According to Michael Geiser (British Museum), who replied to this topic in Facebook, this problem can interest other groups of insects as well.

He wrote about some materials collected by the insect-trader S. Steinke.
Interestingly, according to this site, the "Insect Paradise Thailand" by Sabine Steinke is located in Saraburi!
Maybe the woodland of Saraburi did not furnish sufficient materials, which were later integrated with Bornean ones.
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  09:21:37  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I received yesterday this answer of my German dealer: "They are from Thailand, I got them directly from a trader, who brought them there myself and have been in possession for over 25 years."

So, since 25 years, fake data are on the market, in collections, and museums,...

I know very well Thailand: Business is Business , but the real problem is that "specialists" are unable to recognize species from another country (Borneo) and check nothing before publishing.

I try to find other fake localities from Thailand. A strange date (Winter for species of flowers) could be a good clue

Edited by - Xavier on 02/02/2017 09:28:21
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7762 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  09:35:03  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xavier

Could you make photos of your clytini species?
I think I can tell you if they comes from Thailand or Borneo. I wonder how many wrong labels come from this seller...

Thank you!
This was collected in Saraburi, II.1988:


206.76 KB
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  10:01:02  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I think the problem could be bigger:
Cleomenes robustior Holzschuh, 1995 has a subspecies in Sumatra : Cleomenes robustior sumatrensis Hüdepohl, 1998

Data for Cleomenes robustior Holzschuh, 1995 are S-Thailand, Ranong ; Trang ; Prachuap Khiri Khan ; Hat Yai ; NE Bangkok, Saraburi ; Malaysia, Cameron Highlands, Gurun Jasan

The same Cleomenes in Sumatra and north Bangkok ??

I think all species described by Holzschuh from Ranong,Trang and Prachuap Khiri Khan from January/March 1989 should be seriously checked . I guess they all come from the same place: "Insect Paradise Thailand"

Edited by - Xavier on 02/02/2017 10:09:14
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8088 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  10:08:33  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
quote:
However, all are Rhaphuma.
This was collected in Saraburi, II.1988:
Your specimen is Rhaphuma brevivittata (Aurivillius, 1922) from Cameron Highlands (Malaysia).

Original drawing
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7762 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  10:28:59  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Merci!

And they are the other five specimens (material killed in alcohol)
Three other ones were collected in Fraser Hill (Pahang).


247.66 KB
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