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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8107 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  10:39:00  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
It should be Rhaphuma conformis (Gahan, 1906)
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7766 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  10:46:28  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xavier

It should be Rhaphuma conformis (Gahan, 1906)

Merci beaucoup!

Species widespread in Malaysia and Borneo.
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Pierre-Olivier Maquart
Member Rosalia

United Kingdom
704 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  11:06:30  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
C'est dramatique comme problème
Heureusement que tu l'as vu...

Cela vaudrait peut-être le coup que tu le publies dans une revue pour que ce soit dit "officiellement" et pour informer un "maximum" de gens....

Edited by - Xavier on 02/02/2017 15:52:51
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8107 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  12:04:02  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
About "Ranong" which could also be a fake locality :


52.13 KB

Holotype 1 Oligoenoplus chewi Dauber, 2006 from Borneo. 04. VI. 2002

Holotype 2 Oligoenoplus vetulus Holzschuh, 2011 has been described from Thailand: Ranong I -III 1989 ; NE Bangkok, Saraburi, XI 1988.

C. Holzschuh ...forget to compare his species with Dauber's species.

P. Viktora told me that Oligoenoplus vetulus is...doubtfull.


Edited by - Xavier on 03/02/2017 13:12:34
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8107 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  13:05:18  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I suspect that most of species from this list do no live in Thailand.

Date data should be wrong (sure, very early in the season), they are all from the same year; by crossing informations... they probably come from the same dealer :

Zatrephus inscitus ranongensis Holzschuh, 2009 Ranong 26 novembre 1991...and Zatrephus inscitus Pascoe, 1857 is from Borneo
Cleomenes robustior Holzschuh, 1995 Ranong janvier mars 1989...and Cleomenes robustior sumatrensis Hüdepohl, 1998 is from Sumatra
Clytellus fulgidus Holzschuh, 1991 Ranong janvier mars 1989
Dere adelpha Holzschuh, 1995 Ranong janvier mars 1989
Erythrus crassimargo Holzschuh, 2015 Prachuap Khiri Khan janvier mars 1989
Erythrus intextus Holzschuh, 2011 Prachuap Khiri Khan 1er mars 1989
Erythrus nayani decipiens Holzschuh, 2015 Prachuap Khiri Khan 1er mars 1989...Erythrus nayani Holzschuh, 2010 is from Sabah !
Euryarthrum inopinans Holzschuh, 2010 Trang janvier mars 1989 ...Euryarthrum inopinans insulare Holzschuh 2010 has been described from Borneo. Is E. inopinans really live in Thailand ??.
Euryarthrum rubricolle Holzschuh, 1991 Prachuap Khiri Khan janvier mars 1989
Iphra splendida Holzschuh, 1992 Trang janvier mars 1989
Kurarua laticornis Holzschuh, 1991 Prachuap Khiri Khan janvier mars 1989
Kurarua obfuscata Holzschuh, 2015 Ranong janvier mars 1989
Melegena emarginata Holzschuh, 1993 Hat Yai janvier mars 1989
Merionoeda (Ocytasia) pubicollis Holzschuh, 1991 Ranong janvier mars 1989
Merionoeda (Ocytasia) unguicularis Holzschuh, 1991 Ranong janvier mars 1989
Merionoeda apicicornis Holzschuh, 1991 Trang janvier mars 1989
Merionoeda apicifusca Holzschuh, 1991 Trang janvier mars 1989
Merionoeda laticornis Holzschuh, 1991 Ranong janvier mars 1989 ...to compare with Merionoeda laticornis kalimantana Yokoi & Niisato, 2009 described from Kalimantan !!!
Oligoenoplus vetulus Holzschuh, 2011 Ranong 1er mars 1989 ...to compare to Oligoenoplus chewi Dauber, 2006 from Borneo
Psilomerus brevicorpus Holzschuh, 1992 Ranong janvier mars 1989
Psilomerus torulus Holzschuh, 1993 Ranong janvier mars 1989
Pyrestes nigrosuturalis Holzschuh, 1991 Prachuap Khiri Khan janvier mars 1989 : ...quite identical to Pyrestes scapularis Pascoe, 1866 from Malaysia (Holotype here) but Holzschuh compare his species to Pyrestes bicolor Gressitt & Rondon, 1970 from Laos which is totally different Incredible.
Stenoleptura adelpha Holzschuh, 2011 Prachuap Khiri Khan janvier mars 1989 : This species abruptly extends the distribution of the genus to Thailand
Stenoleptura inculta Holzschuh, 2011 Trang janvier mars 1989 : This species2 abruptly extends the distribution of the genus to Thailand

always the same game : try to find identical species from Borneo, Malaysia, etc. If not, they could be true species.



Edited by - Xavier on 14/09/2017 15:26:50
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7766 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  13:20:22  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Voilà: any one: Serratobicon scutatus

Serratobicon scutatus scutatus: widespread in Thailand (Saraburi) and Sumatra!
No problem for the author for this strange distribution

Serratobicon scutatus sabahensis: Borneo.

Differences (according to the author):
- the red colour does not reach the elytral half (but colour is variable!)
- the almost regularly rounded pronotal disk with a bit stronger and more evident punctures. Author's remark: the two paratypes show different pronotal proportions (!)

Chapeau!


Serratobicon scutatus scutatus (b/n) and sabahensis, females (colour)

Someone could verify if the picture of scutatus scutatus is a male?
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
7766 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  14:07:13  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xavier

Metalloleptura curticornis Holzschuh, 1991 probably a synonym of Metalloleptura virescens (Aurivillius, 1911).
No, it is the synonym of M. basirufipes Hayashi 1983, which the author "knew only through the description"

"The antennae are much longer and with different proportions".
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8107 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  15:53:41  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pierre-Olivier Maquart

C'est dramatique comme problème
Heureusement que tu l'as vu...

Cela vaudrait peut-être le coup que tu le publies dans une revue pour que ce soit dit "officiellement" et pour informer un "maximum" de gens....

J'ai informé les auteurs concernés.
Les holotypes des espèces décrites sont dans leurs collections, et je pense qu'établir la vérité relève de leur devoir scientifique.
Toutes ces espèces sont de fait "sans patrie d'origine", et leur statut de "bona species" est légitimement contestable.

Edited by - Xavier on 02/02/2017 16:55:48
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horshehden
Member Purpuricenus

Czech Republic
424 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2017 :  09:49:35  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
In most cases, Ranong, Saraburi etc should be interpreted as Cameron Highlands; collecting date might be correct.
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8107 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2017 :  10:17:08  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I agree with you, it might be possible.

- Collecting data correct ? I am not so sure. I have been in Malaysia in November !...It could also be a date of packaging

- "must be interpreted", -> must be published, no ? Science is a matter of "interpretation" ?. Who will accept that ???

Checking all species will be quite impossible because we will have no help of the great scientist Holzschuh : it is not his problem, and he doesn't care ! (private mail).

Some material could also come from Borneo; you can check it by searching in Larry's website.

I have numerous "Thai" blisters, and I try to understand from where they really come from. News later...

It is funny to see "Thai" species with a "subspecies" in Borneo !

Edited by - Xavier on 03/02/2017 10:49:58
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horshehden
Member Purpuricenus

Czech Republic
424 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2017 :  10:45:58  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
You have been there and ?
You can find good flowers there at any month. You just need to find it.
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8107 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2017 :  10:59:58  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Ok. I go in Asia since 30 years.
In Chang Rai, you can have 5°C at the morning in December. Same in Luang Prabang (Laos)...
I spent a complete winter in Sumatra; 5° in the morning, and only some Rhopalocera flying at noon.

Some years, in November, south Thailand is under...water. Fields are lakes, and all small Cerambycidae from flowers have disappeared since end of June. Then, in December, it is getting colder(in mountain in the morning) and dry.

"November" is evidently a fake date ...for me.
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8107 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2017 :  11:15:15  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I do not say it is impossible to find species in November. Here, we speak about collecting thousands of specimens from flowers (Clytini, Stenopterini, etc) in November : ahaha !

Edited by - Xavier on 03/02/2017 11:16:40
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator

France
8107 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2017 :  12:06:55  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by horshehden

In most cases, Ranong, Saraburi etc should be interpretted as Cameron Highlands; collecting date might be correct.

You can find good flowers there at any month. You just need to find it.



Yes, after all, I do not see any problem. Thanks a lot Tomas to show us the truth. .

but, Tomas, what can I do with Oligoenoplus above ?

Edited by - Xavier on 03/02/2017 13:18:35
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horshehden
Member Purpuricenus

Czech Republic
424 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2017 :  13:59:02  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I suggest you to wait. May be you will find the answer in our next paper. May be not.
While I have about 50 specimens of various Oligoenoplus species coming from continental Malaysia, I have only a few from Borneo and almost none from Java and Sumatra. Thus, it is not so easy to judge the variability.
It is possible that there are three closely related species (together with O. hieroglyphicus).
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